| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1843
   |
Posted - 2012.03.31 02:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullying
Well to be honest it seems to summarise what happened pretty well.
But more than that, it also seems a decent summary of goonswarm out of game tactics against their enemies in Eve Online.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1843
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 02:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
Swearte Widfarend wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullyingWell to be honest it seems to summarise what happened pretty well. But more than that, it also seems a decent summary of goonswarm out of game tactics against their enemies in Eve Online. I've got a great one, although not targeted at you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DefamationThat's what Massively did. And Jade, you can hate the character and the player all you want. But if you can't rationally examine what happened during fanfest, and since, I feel sorry for you. The only person who's real life has been negatively impacted by all of this is The Mittani - it's his RL name that's been dragged through the mud. Although I guess it's not cyberbullying because he's a goon, right? I'd like you to show us the real-world names, faces, and contact information that the Goons are spreading around the internet, defaming or bullying people with.
I would be interested to see the court case really.
Would certainly be a landmark case and quite a high risk strategy for Alexander Gianturco to try to sue for defamation when the video of his behaviour at Fanfest is in wide circulation.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1843
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 02:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
Townsend Harris wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Swearte Widfarend wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyber-bullyingWell to be honest it seems to summarise what happened pretty well. But more than that, it also seems a decent summary of goonswarm out of game tactics against their enemies in Eve Online. I've got a great one, although not targeted at you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DefamationThat's what Massively did. And Jade, you can hate the character and the player all you want. But if you can't rationally examine what happened during fanfest, and since, I feel sorry for you. The only person who's real life has been negatively impacted by all of this is The Mittani - it's his RL name that's been dragged through the mud. Although I guess it's not cyberbullying because he's a goon, right? I'd like you to show us the real-world names, faces, and contact information that the Goons are spreading around the internet, defaming or bullying people with. I would be interested to see the court case really. Would certainly be a landmark case and quite a high risk strategy for Alexander Gianturco to try to sue for defamation when the video of his behaviour at Fanfest is in wide circulation. Now Who's playing internet lawyer? MORE RELAVENT THAN EVER
I made an observation. You goons are the ones wetting your knickers in fury 
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1843
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 03:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Now that someone has posted Mittens' real life address along with a threat to **** his wife can we expect the same media circus, public shaming and bans for violating the EULA? (Not to mention a criminal conviction.) Oh right its not cyber-bullying if it happens to a goon because ~live by the sword.
Of course you should. Anybody doing such a thing should be immediately banned from eve online and reported to the authorities. Its bad when the goons do this stuff, its bad when anybody else does it.
Keep eve online to in-game conflict and everyone is happy. You aren't being asked for anything that is remotely unreasonable.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1845
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 03:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Townsend Harris wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote:Now that someone has posted Mittens' real life address along with a threat to **** his wife can we expect the same media circus, public shaming and bans for violating the EULA? (Not to mention a criminal conviction.) Oh right its not cyber-bullying if it happens to a goon because ~live by the sword. Of course you should. Anybody doing such a thing should be immediately banned from eve online and reported to the authorities. Its bad when the goons do this stuff, its bad when anybody else does it. Keep eve online to in-game conflict and everyone is happy. You aren't being asked for anything that is remotely unreasonable. This is the only post you've made recently that does not require a youtube video
So while we're able to speak as reasonable adults for a moment. Can you at least understand what the issue is in general here? Its not as Alexander Gianturco has portrayed this evening about a liberal media wanting to turn eve online into hello killy (or whatever) its with non SA eve players wanting conflict in this game kept to ingame conflict. There is no need for all the bullying and harrassment of the players behind the characters - thats simply crass.
We are all playing this game because we like the excitement and consequences of a full on pvp setting. Everyone who keeps playing understands that its a game of ruthless intrigues and bloody violence in space. All that is asked of the SA community is that you respect the boundaries between in-game conflict and ooc harrassment and make sure you stay on the right side of the line.
Burn Jita all you like. Grief ice-miners all year if you like, rob and steal and despoil and spread horror and suffering (in-game). But don't get into the business of trying to push real people out of the game with out of game metagaming and harrassment and none of us will have any problems.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1845
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 03:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
OfBalance wrote:Zirise wrote:Now that someone has posted Mittens' real life address along with a threat to **** his wife can we expect the same media circus, public shaming and bans for violating the EULA? (Not to mention a criminal conviction.) Oh right its not cyber-bullying if it happens to a goon because ~live by the sword. edit: http://twitter.com/#!/LiangNuren/status/185924104279425024 Hooooooly ****. Can we get a GM confirming that insane person is banned and preferably being arrested?
According to the chatlogs of the eve radio channel somebody (player X) posted an address. They should be petitioned and if it ends up being the real one they should face action for harrassment against a player of the game.
Then somebody else (player y) made a very inappropriate remark in reference to the address. That too needs to the petitioned and a warning and potential ban issued.
I'm sure CCP will deal with it in an even handed fashion. RL harrassment of any player of the game is completely unacceptable.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1845
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sir Marksalot wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:All that is asked of the SA community is that you respect the boundaries between in-game conflict and ooc harrassment and make sure you stay on the right side of the line.
That's literally what mittens said in the interview. You should listen to it.
Well you'd help his case immensely if you started to accept the need for this also.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1846
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Caimeka wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Sir Marksalot wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:All that is asked of the SA community is that you respect the boundaries between in-game conflict and ooc harrassment and make sure you stay on the right side of the line.
That's literally what mittens said in the interview. You should listen to it. Well you'd help his case immensely if you started to accept the need for this also. (and by *you* I do largely mean SA members on Eve online forums) I would like to order a 2 dollar sucky sucky
case in point.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1846
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zirise wrote:[
There's nothing wrong with ooc harassment as long as its directed at characters within the game. This is eve after all and not everyone role-plays a transexual hooker.
How exactly can you direct Out of Character harrassment at a "character in game"? Lets face it, you are trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to harrass the player behind the character and since we're talking here entirely as players (me).
Just like several years ago Alexander Gianturco almost certainly was involved in sending the url you just liniked to my clients in a city of london bank I was working for at that time with an accusation I (the player) was working as an "internet prostitute" and person of low moral fibre.
Now thats a direct ooc attempt at harrassment and damaging my rl work. Very much the same kind of thing that Alexander Gianturco is now claiming against Massively and the gaming media.
I am sure you can see the connection.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1846
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Zirise wrote:[
There's nothing wrong with ooc harassment as long as its directed at characters within the game. This is eve after all and not everyone role-plays a transexual hooker. How exactly can you direct Out of Character harrassment at a "character in game"? Lets face it, you are trying (albeit unsuccessfully) to harrass the player behind the character and since we're talking here entirely as players (me). Just like several years ago Alexander Gianturco almost certainly was involved in sending the url you just liniked to my clients in a city of london bank I was working for at that time with an accusation I (the player) was working as an "internet prostitute" and person of low moral fibre. Now thats a direct ooc attempt at harrassment and damaging my rl work. Very much the same kind of thing that Alexander Gianturco is now claiming against Massively and the gaming media. I am sure you can see the connection. Waving the url around these forums isn't harassment, because you can opt out at any time. It's the internet. People sending it to your workplace absolutely crosses a line but so does your implying that 'Alex' was involved.
How exactly do I "opt out" of the harrassment ? Presumeably by quitting the game. Isn't that the definition of cyberbullying we've been discussing this evening. Bringing ooc pressure on somebody on the internet to win a metagaming war?
As for implying that Alexander Gianturco was behind it. I only have circumstantial evidence, the url surfaced at the time of my csm01 run in 2008 and was used by a number of Goonswarm director characters on these forums and sent to my rl work placement in the form of an email from a disposable email account.
Can I prove Alex was behind it? Of course not. Do I strongly suspect he had knowledge of it - you betcha. Am I reminded of this attempt to discredit me in the eyes of a rl contract placement where I earn my living each time a member of goonswarm bring this stuff up for trolling on the forums - yep.
And its very much a case in point tonight.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1849
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Frederick Sanger wrote:You're really going to continue to use Mitten's real name even after someone just gave out his home address and threatened his wife. Giving out another players personal information (including their real name) is against the EULA and considering what just happened in very poor taste.
Running for CSM involves giving up one's internet anonymity. I have done it (hence you know I'm known as Andrew Cruse irl) and Alexander Gianturco has done it. So don't attempt to legal-shizzle me with your voodoo nonsense please.
As I noted elsewhere the person who claimed to reveal Alexander's address on the eve-radio channel tonight was very bad. They got petitioned (and I understand) dealt with. Whether it was the real address or just troll is irrelevant at this point. Metagaming should leave people's rl out of in-game conflicts.
Which is precisely the point I was making with the goons continuing the use of a troll url that was created specifically to attempt to get me in trouble with my rl employers in 2008. If you want to join me in opposing the abuse of eve players via ooc harrassment then by all means join me in condemning such things without partizan boundaries. Otherwise your opinions become quite suspect.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1849
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 04:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
Zirise wrote:
Anyways its fairly easy to block me and all the other 'cyberbullies' both on this website and in the game. So yea, as long as it's kept firmly online it really is HTFU or GTFO.
But of course it hasn't been kept firmly online has it. People know precisely where this material has been used and why and its played a very definite role in attempted out of character harrassment of an eve player who just happened to be "an enemy" of your coalition.
HTFO or GTFO sounds again like trolling somebody into quitting the game?
Do you think I should end my eve subscription and leave this game as a result of your harrassment?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1853
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zirise wrote: As a result of my harassment? What harassment? Posting something you wrote online under the name of your EVE character to the EVE forums isn't harassment. If I mailed it to your workplace or family or whatever than yea, please come sue me or whatever but I didn't. You also have no proof that The Mittani or any other Goon was involved in anything outside of posting it across the internet and its shameful that you're implying that.
Well haven't you already admitted that the reason you are using the same goon-hosted url to make out I'm an internet prositute that was sent to my employers is to harrass "my character" ooc? You've already said its in an attempt to get me to quit the game. Its basically harrassment of an eve player in on an ooc level.
You are not using material I use to roleplay my character, you are using a url that was created by goonswarm to harrass me ooc and try to get me fired from a rl job.
One might consider that a fairly serious breach of the eula.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1853
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zirise wrote:
I told you to block me and others you might have a problem with. I'm 'harassing' you (lol) because I don't like you and I think your a despicable human being. Where have I tried to get you fired? What the christ man?
Well you are re-using a goon-hosted URL that was created to try to get me fired from my job when I was running a CSM campaign against the favoured goon candidate in 2008. The fact you are doing this could be taken as a "threat" that you intend to do this again. Perhaps my current contract clients are going to get an email tomorrow from an "anonymous" source saying that I'm a person of low moral character working as an internet prostitute. How am I supposed to know? Every time you bring this up to the forums I could well feel its a direct threat that means .... "unless you stop arguing against Goonswarm interests we're going to try to get you fired." Stranger things have happened in Eve.
Zirise wrote:... or sure quit the game if it really bothers you that much.
And thats the problem I was talking about. You goons take it too far. You don't draw the line at ganking people's ships or wardecing alliances or stealing from hangers or intriguing against coalitions - you have to take it that much futher and turn it into harrassing the individual players OUT OF GAME to try to make them QUIT the game. And you still can't see why this is incompatible with a health community attitude.
You ahve just taken this too far into direct harrassment of another player. Just like Alexander Gianturco did, and just like he is not complaining of himself.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1853
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Zirise wrote:
So basically all you have are hypotheticals from start to finish. I did not imply I wanted you to leave the game or that my goal was to remove you from the game.
Thats exactly what you implied in fact and you said if I wasn't "tough enough" to put up with you posting the url that was used to try and get me fired in 2008 I should leave the game.
Zirise wrote: My 'goal' is to express my opinion that what you're saying is wrong and that you're attempting to further tarnish The Mittani by laying these baseless accusations tied to his real name.
As baseless as the accusation I have been an internet prostitute in real life such as that the accusation should be sent to my employer? You have proof I've been paid for sex ? Tax returns maybe? Or is this a baseless accusation too?
Zirise wrote: The url of your roleplaying is cemented in stone on the internet, its not a goon link. If it shames you so much why did you attach your character name to it? It's no different than someone looking through my post history and dragging out all the terrible posts I've made.
It is a goon url that was created in 2008 to attempt (I have to assume) to get me sacked from the job I was doing during the CSM1 election campaign. The goon leadership (and that means Alexander Gianturco) have kept it "on tap" ever since to presumably remind me that any time they fancy they can mess with my rl employment prospects. Perhaps I should be talking to the media about this kind of thing? Cyber-bullying is big news and all that.
Zirise wrote: There are plenty of options available to you that allow you to both avoid people like me (if it actually bothers you) and continue playing the game but you don't seem interested in listening.
Well one of those options is to convince YOU that harrassing a player out of character and leveraging a rl threat against their livelihood is not a good way to go. If you want to shut me up on these forums and stop criticising your GREAT LEADER - then how about you drop a wardec on my alliance and come and grief us into stations for a month.
PLAY THE GAME. Stop trying to break the boundaries between GAME AND REAL-LIFE.
That is the point I'm trying to make for you.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1853
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Zirise wrote: Where did I imply that? I think your roleplaying is pretty funny and pretty stupid, but nowhere did I imply that you're a prostitute. And even if I did, I didn't attach it to your real name.
You declared your intent to harrass my character by "out of character" means. Previously the url you used has been sent to my rl employers with precisely that lie. Its not a stretch to see your use of this piece of goon psyops material to be a similar threat this time.
Zirise wrote:I just used eve search and found it within minutes. Obviously someone out there decided to endanger your employment (something absolutely reprehensible) but you don't know it was a Goon and you certainly can't imply it was the Goons at large or Mittens, who wasn't even actively playing EVE at that time.
Well as I said there was coincidence. This was sent to my contract clients at the same time it appeared in the CSM1 election threads posted by goon directors. Now it has surfaced again and Alexander Gianturco is leader of goonswarm with a high degree of personal control. If goon directors are posting these things again then one has to assume that he knows about it.
Quote:Again, where have I harassed you? The only one who has done any harassing in this thread is you with your continued baseless accusations.
Again as "baseless" as the accusation I'm working as an internet prostitute and thats something my employers need to know about?
You just seem unwilling to take the point that this is precisely why people are so annoyed with goonswarm currently and the SA culture that has come to dominate Eve online and led directly to the Gianturco fanfest panel.
You take things too far. When you should be making war on people's spaceship corporations and blowing their ships up, you instead what to fake out some neferious career as internet prostitutes and send these things to rl employers to harrass people out of the game.
Thats the problem in a nutshell.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
1853
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 06:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zirise wrote:You're no better than anyone you claim is acting against you by attempting to defame people's real life identities.
Well then, there is your justification to let my current employers know I'm still scandalizing morality and working as an internet prostitute, doubtless you can find my place of work easily enough with some simple internet-searching so I guess I'll be having a similar conversation over coffee next week. Justifying ooc harrassment is so easy isn't it.
Night night.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
| |
|